Wellness Matters Webinar - From pregnancy to postpartum: ways to support your mental health through the journey

There is so much information available on preparing for a new baby, caring for your newborn, and the best items to put on your registry. Postpartum mental health resources are harder to find! One in five new mothers experience a postpartum mood disorder, but many are told that what they are feeling is part of the normal changes that follow giving birth. It is so important to be aware of the signs and symptoms of postpartum mood disorders, to have a supportive team, resources available, and a plan before the baby comes. This workshop will go through the things that you can do prior to baby’s arrival to prepare your mental health, signs and symptoms you should know, what partners and friends can do, and what local resources are available.

Facilitated by: Erica Burdzy

FAQs

• What is the difference between “baby blues” and postpartum depression?

  The baby blues usually happen in the first two weeks after giving birth and affect up to about 80% of new moms. During this time, it’s common to feel extra emotional, teary, and overwhelmed as your hormones shift, your body heals, and sleep is disrupted. Postpartum depression lasts longer than two weeks and goes beyond feeling weepy or emotional. Signs can include ongoing sadness, anger or irritability, not feeling interested in the baby, appetite changes, sleep problems even when the baby is sleeping, guilt or shame, loss of joy, and possibly thoughts of harming yourself or the baby. If your mood feels “off” most days, or things aren’t improving after those first couple of weeks, it may be more than baby blues and worth reaching out for help.

• What are the signs of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders during pregnancy and postpartum?

  Perinatal mood and anxiety disorders (PMADs) can start any time from pregnancy up to a year—or even longer—after birth. They include conditions such as postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety, postpartum OCD, postpartum PTSD, bipolar depression, and postpartum psychosis. Symptoms can look like constant worry, racing thoughts, feeling that something bad will happen, trouble sleeping or eating beyond what’s typical for new parents, feeling detached from the baby, feeling hopeless or overwhelmed, or having intrusive thoughts about the baby getting hurt. With OCD, those intrusive thoughts are often paired with repetitive behaviours like checking, cleaning, or seeking reassurance. In more severe but less common cases, there can be flashbacks (PTSD), hallucinations, delusions, or very rapid mood swings (psychosis). If you notice these signs in yourself or someone you love, it’s important to talk with a health professional.

• How is postpartum depression screened and what mental health support is available in Alberta?

  In Alberta, most new parents are automatically connected to the Healthy Beginnings program after giving birth. A nurse usually visits at home in the first days after discharge, and follow-up happens through community health clinics. Around two months postpartum, nurses typically screen for postpartum depression using the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale (EPDS), a short questionnaire about your mood and functioning. Beyond Healthy Beginnings, you can talk to your family doctor, your baby’s doctor or pediatrician, a clinic mental health nurse, or a therapist (many offer phone or video sessions). Local mom groups and organizations, as well as crisis supports like the CMHA distress line, Access 24/7, and the Alberta Health Services Mental Health Helpline, can also help you access screening, counselling, and referrals if you’re struggling.

• How can partners, family, and friends support a new mom’s postpartum mental health?

  Partners and loved ones play a key role in spotting changes and offering support. It helps to learn the signs of perinatal mood disorders and gently share what you’ve noticed—for example, “I’ve noticed you’re not sleeping even when the baby is asleep; how are you feeling?” Offer practical help (childcare, meals, driving to appointments) and emotional support by listening without judgment, rather than saying things like “just be positive” or “at least the baby is healthy,” which can increase guilt and shame. You can suggest calling the Healthy Beginnings nurse, family doctor, or a helpline together and help with booking or attending appointments. If you’re ever worried someone may be at risk of harming themselves or the baby, it’s important to call 911 or go to the emergency room right away.

Transcript

Hello, and welcome to our webinar this evening. We’re very happy to have you here with us. Our webinar this evening is with facilitator Erica Burdzy, and it is “From Pregnancy to Postpartum: Ways to Support Your Mental Health Through the Journey.” My name is Nicole Imgrund, and I’m the owner and director of Rivers Edge Counselling Centre. This talk tonight is part of our Wellness Matters series. We have a couple of webinars—sometimes in-person talks at the centre—and a couple of them every month.

We have close to 100 now, I think, on the website that are pre-recorded, and you are welcome to look at them anytime. We’re nearing the end of our spring session of talks, but we still have a couple left coming up. I’ll let you know: next up, later in May here on the 23rd, we have “Empowering Parenthood: Navigating the Autism Spectrum with Confidence and Care,” and then in June we have “Standing Up to the OCD Monster.” So, some good ones coming. In just a week or two, we will have our full fall series up on the website as well—lots to look forward to—as well as some of our groups and programs. Still a couple of those coming this spring, and again, our new fall program schedule is coming out very soon as well.

I am going to introduce you to our facilitator, Erica, this evening. Erica is a practicum student at Rivers Edge Counselling. She has just finished her Master of Counselling degree at Athabasca University, so congratulations for that—that’s such a wonderful milestone to reach. Prior to completing her master’s work, Erica has a diverse work history. She previously worked at a local agency that supports individuals with disabilities, and while completing her undergraduate degree in Psychology at MacEwan, she also worked within one of the local school divisions, supporting students, parents, teachers, and other multidisciplinary team members. All of these experiences shaped her desire to complete a Master of Counselling degree and to enter this field.

Erica’s counselling experience now includes working with adults, teens, and couples. She has a special interest in perinatal mental health following the birth of her own child, and in working with women seeking support in the perinatal period. That, of course, is what brings us to this topic tonight that is so important. Erica is looking forward to continuing in private practice this fall. She sees counselling as a collaborative journey, believing that each individual is the expert in themselves. She approaches clients with curiosity, wanting to learn from them—not just about them. She draws on humanistic modalities, understanding clients as knowledgeable in their own experiences and as active participants within the therapeutic setting.

So thank you for offering this topic to us tonight, Erica. I’m really looking forward to it. If you want to screen share your presentation, I’ll turn off my video shortly. I’ll be here in case you need any technical support. Erica’s talk is about 40 minutes or so, so we will have some time at the end of the hour for questions. If you have any comments or questions, feel free to put them in the chat, and we can look at them at the end.

Hello everyone. Welcome to “From Pregnancy to Postpartum: Ways to Support Your Mental Health Through the Journey.” I’m just going to go through a quick overview of what we’re going to talk about tonight. When we are pregnant, we hear so much advice—from what the best items to put on our registries are, to how many receiving blankets is actually enough. We’re sometimes even lucky enough to get unsolicited advice in the middle of a grocery store. We hear about the best diapers, wipes, pacifiers, bottles, doctors—but what we hear less about is what having a baby can do to our mental health.

Many new moms and many new parents experience postpartum mood disorders, but they may be brushed off or told that what they are feeling is just part of the normal changes that follow giving birth. So it’s really important to be aware of the signs and symptoms of postpartum mood disorders, to have a supportive team around you, to have resources available, and a plan before the baby comes—and that’s what I’m going to talk to you about tonight.

I’ll start with an overview of postpartum or perinatal mood disorders and some of their common symptoms. We’ll talk about the process for screening for these in Alberta, go through some other resources, and then also talk about how our partners, family, and friends can help.

The first thing that I wanted to note is the difference between perinatal and postpartum. I kind of use these interchangeably, but the perinatal period is the time from when you become pregnant until one year postpartum, and then postpartum is defined as that time after giving birth. There is a lot more understanding now that mental health can be affected during the perinatal period—actually before we’ve given birth. This period is an exceptionally unique time in a woman’s life, and there are incredible effects on a woman’s physical, physiological, and mental health.

We often hear about the baby blues, and this is commonly thought of as the period of about two weeks after giving birth where some report that they feel extra emotional. Estimates show that around 80% of women will experience some kind of baby blues. It is important to note that feeling emotional, feeling teary during this time can be absolutely normal. Your body has gone through such a major event. Hormones are beginning to regulate, your body is healing, you may not be sleeping—there is really a lot going on.

But it is also really important to keep in mind that perinatal mood disorders may also begin during this two-week period, and they may be overlooked or passed off as normal changes, or just thought of as, “Oh, it’s just the baby blues.” So it’s really important to know the difference between feeling emotional, feeling teary, crying a little bit, and then feelings of anxiety and depression.

In Canada, estimates of postpartum depression and anxiety vary. Estimates show that there can be anywhere from 16% of women to 31%—it kind of varies across the provinces and different studies. One study actually showed that 25% of women experience depression or anxiety during their pregnancy, and then that same study showed that only 13.3% reported symptoms of depression or anxiety after the baby was born.

Perinatal mood disorders include a wide, wide range of diagnoses, and they can present themselves at any time during the first year postpartum. There have actually been more recent studies showing postpartum depression showing up in individuals even later than this. One study that I read showed a diagnosis of postpartum depression three years after giving birth. So symptoms can start any time from before or right after birth to a year—or even more—later.

Beyond the more commonly known postpartum depression, other perinatal mood disorders can include postpartum or perinatal anxiety. This is also one that is becoming more recognized; more research is finding more occurrences of perinatal anxiety. There is also postpartum or perinatal obsessive compulsive disorder; postpartum post-traumatic stress disorder; and there are less stats and less research available on these two. Then there’s also postpartum bipolar and postpartum psychosis that can occur. These are even less common than post-traumatic stress disorder and obsessive compulsive disorder.

I’m going to go through these perinatal mood disorders and their symptoms, but before I do that, I just really wanted to emphasize: if you do experience any of these symptoms or diagnoses, you didn’t do anything wrong. You’re not alone, and you are not to blame. There can be so much guilt and even shame around these feelings and these diagnoses, but they’re really a lot more common than we think.

Postpartum or perinatal depression is the most commonly known and likely what comes to mind for many of us when thinking about perinatal mood disorders. Often the term postpartum depression is just used as a blanket term to describe all of the perinatal mental health conditions. While there is beginning to be more research on other perinatal mental health disorders, postpartum depression is still the most widely researched and the most commonly known.

Some symptoms of perinatal depression include feelings of anger or irritability; feeling a lack of interest in the baby; appetite changes, so losing weight rapidly—this is kind of a tricky one because it can be praised, but it also is a sign that something is wrong. You often hear people saying, “Oh, she lost the baby weight so quickly,” but it can be a result of appetite changes, and that’s something to keep in mind.

Sleep disturbances are also something that, as a new parent, are going to be messed up no matter what. But if you can’t sleep when the baby sleeps, or you can’t stop your mind from racing when you’re actually tired and when you have that opportunity to sleep, that could also be a sign that something is wrong. Crying and sadness is another symptom—different from the emotions that are often associated with the baby blues—and something that also needs to be kept in mind, especially in that two-week period at the beginning.

There can also be feelings of guilt, shame, or hopelessness; loss of interest, joy, or pleasure in things that you used to enjoy; and there can be possible thoughts of harming the baby or yourself.

Perinatal anxiety is actually very common and not as well understood as perinatal depression. Often people don’t seek help when experiencing perinatal anxiety because the symptoms may be similar, but also don’t really match up with what we think of as postpartum depression. The symptoms of postpartum anxiety may even be more brushed off as common thoughts with becoming a new parent, with adding a new baby to your family.

Signs of postpartum anxiety can include constant worry; feelings that something bad is going to happen; those racing thoughts you kind of can’t stop. Like perinatal depression, there can be disturbances of sleep and appetite. These ones are again common with new parents, so it’s important to know the difference between what is a normal perinatal or postnatal change and what may indicate that there’s something else going on. There can also be the inability to sit still, and physical symptoms associated with perinatal anxiety, such as dizziness, hot flashes, and nausea.

With postpartum obsessive compulsive disorder, the hallmark of OCD is the obsessions and the compulsions, and with perinatal obsessive compulsive disorder these will usually focus on the newborn—or even the unborn infant. This is also something that can occur before you’ve given birth as well. The onset of OCD is typically gradual; however, with perinatal OCD the symptoms come on quite a bit more rapidly, typically.

The symptoms associated with postpartum or perinatal OCD are those obsessions—also called intrusive thoughts. These are persistent, repetitive thoughts or maybe mental images related to the baby. These thoughts can be really upsetting or distressing, and can include thoughts about the baby getting hurt or the baby getting sick.

Compulsions involve doing certain things over and over again that reduce the fears and reduce these obsessions. This can include things like needing to clean; constantly checking things over and over relating to the baby; counting or reordering things; and even seeking reassurance from others regarding the baby. There is often a lot of distress about these obsessions or intrusive thoughts, and there can also be a fear of being left alone with the infant, and hypervigilance in protecting the infant.

Postpartum PTSD is most often caused by a real or perceived trauma during delivery or postpartum. There can be intrusive thoughts and re-experiencing of the traumatic event. The traumatic event could have been the childbirth itself; an unplanned C-section; having the baby go to the NICU; and even just feelings of powerlessness, poor communication, or feeling a lack of support during the delivery. The delivery not going the way that you thought it was going to go, or envisioned it going to go.

There could be flashbacks and nightmares. Some people will avoid the stimuli that are associated with the traumatic event, including the thoughts, feelings, the people, the places, the details of what happened. There can be persistent increased arousal. That can include increased irritability and difficulty sleeping. There can be hypervigilance surrounding yourself or the infant, and some also experience an exaggerated startle response. There can be anxiety or panic attacks, and also a sense of unreality and detachment.

It is important to talk to your doctor if you experience any of these symptoms during any time in the perinatal period. It’s also important to keep in mind that if you have experienced depression, anxiety, OCD, or PTSD prior to your pregnancy, you may also want to talk to your doctor or your health care provider prior to becoming pregnant or prior to giving birth.

And then, just briefly, postpartum bipolar and postpartum psychosis are less common and less researched. I couldn’t even really find stats on postpartum bipolar, but in pregnant and postpartum women, a bipolar depression can look just like a really severe depression. It may be experienced as anxiety, and with this kind of diagnosis it’s important that your mood history be reviewed with your doctor. They can assess whether you had times of persistently elevated mood or persistent anxiety, and they can evaluate for that.

Postpartum psychosis is thought to occur in approximately one in a thousand births—so less common, like I said, and again less researched. The symptoms for this usually start quite suddenly within the first two weeks after giving birth, and they often actually occur within hours or days of giving birth. More rarely, they can still develop several weeks after birth.

Symptoms of postpartum psychosis can include hallucinations—hearing, smelling, feeling things that aren’t there. They could include delusions—suspicions, fears, thoughts that are unlikely to be true. It can also include mania—feeling very high, very overactive—or a low mood, so you lack energy, that loss of appetite, anxiety, agitation. It can also sometimes be a mixture of both: high, erratic mood and then low mood, or really rapidly fluctuating moods as well. There can also be a feeling of being very confused.

I did want to go through a little bit about postpartum care in Alberta. Postpartum care in Alberta generally includes the Healthy Beginnings program. This is a program that the hospital will refer you to after you’ve given birth. With the Healthy Beginnings program, the hospital will kind of sign you up. Generally the nurses at the Healthy Beginnings program will give you a call and they’ll set up an appointment with you, and they will provide in-home nursing care and support.

This is generally in the first couple days after coming home from the hospital with baby. Generally they will just do that one appointment. If everything’s fine, they give you the phone number to the nearest Healthy Beginnings program to you. Then, if you need it, they may come back. If you’re struggling with nursing, struggling after a C-section, or anything like that, they may also come back and do additional visits.

Some of the things that they do for nursing care and support at these home visits may include health assessments for both the parent and the newborn; they’ll do a feeding assessment; they can assist with breastfeeding and give suggestions; they will assist with newborn care and questions. They also often provide and have access to really great resources for other services. Without having to go to a doctor, they can often provide referrals to things like the breastfeeding clinic or other places.

The Healthy Beginnings program is actually quite a large program. There are over 50 different service locations—both rural and urban locations—across Alberta. So it’s a really large program. After the initial in-home visit, these are the nurses that are typically at the community health clinics, and we’ll see mom and baby for follow-up appointments there.

One thing that I found really interesting for the Healthy Beginnings program is their standard is to do a postpartum depression screening for new moms, and this typically occurs at the two-month follow-up appointment. They use what’s called the Edinburgh Postnatal Depression Scale. So they’ll just go through a quick questionnaire with you at the two-month appointment. Along with the Healthy Beginnings program, postpartum care also includes visits to your regular family doctor, or if your child has a pediatrician, it can include that.

I think it’s really important to note that the screenings for the perinatal mood disorders—and actually postpartum depression—are standard to have them done at the two-month postpartum appointment. I think this really highlights the importance of being proactive, being aware of the signs and symptoms of perinatal mood disorders, and then advocating for yourself or your partner.

Other resources: It can be really difficult to tell someone that you need help, especially in the postnatal period. There are a lot of feelings of guilt, maybe even shame. There’s a lot of embarrassment in admitting that we need help in this period. We often have people try to placate us or say things like, “You have a healthy baby,” or “You have two healthy kids,” or “Everything maybe didn’t go the way you wanted, but you’re at home now. Everybody’s good. Everybody’s healthy.”

People sharing that kind of thing with us can perpetuate those feelings of not wanting to share, of being embarrassed to share how we’re feeling. You might not know what to say, and you might not want to say anything because you’ve heard, “Well, maybe it’s just a normal thing,” or things like that, or you feel that embarrassment. But something that I will keep repeating: you are not alone. These feelings are common, and they’re not talked about as often as we need them to be.

Some local resources are, like I talked about before, the Healthy Beginnings nurses. Because you’re already there at these appointments, this is often a first point of contact. You’re already bringing baby there for checkups, and for me, when I had a newborn, adding another appointment or calling my own doctor to make an appointment and trying to fit that in somewhere was so overwhelming. So the Healthy Beginnings nurses—and already having that appointment and being there at the office—was something that for me was really vital.

If you have concerns, take the time when you’re already there, when you’re already at that appointment. They often have so many other resources that they can point you to. Your family doctor, your baby’s doctor, or your pediatrician—you can also ask them or talk to them. A trusted doctor can be a really good first call. It can be even more helpful if you talk to your doctor about these potential mental health issues before the baby arrives. Like I mentioned before, this can be especially important if you have a history of prior mental health concerns—just talking to your doctor and having that discussion before the baby comes, or even before you get pregnant.

Often medical clinics will have a mental health nurse, so you can talk to your doctor about being referred to the mental health nurse. You can see this nurse prior to or after the birth of your baby, and even talk about the same things that you talk about with your doctor. If you have a history of mental health concerns, you can speak to the mental health nurse prior to that, or ask your doctor to be referred to the mental health nurse, talk to her about your concerns, and ask for resources afterwards.

Having a relationship with a trusted therapist before the birth of your baby can also be helpful. I know I talked about how it can be daunting or overwhelming to make an appointment or to reach out once the baby’s here, but many therapists offer telehealth appointments now—phone or video—so if you do have a regular therapist, having a plan with them maybe to check in after the birth of your baby could also be an option.

You can also talk to a partner, a friend, a family member. It’s a great idea for your partner to have all of this information as well, or other people who are going to be close to you after the birth of the baby. Many also find that new mom support groups are helpful. Some local ones are Mommy Connections—I know they have meetings in both St. Albert and a few locations in Edmonton—and then there’s also an organization called The Fourth that has gatherings with moms, and they also have talks on different topics.

Other resources to have handy would be the Canadian Mental Health Association distress line: 780-482-HELP. There is also Access 24/7, which is 780-424-2424, and they provide a range of urgent and non-urgent addiction and mental health services. They can help you navigate screening, assessment, referrals, consultation, that kind of thing. There’s also the Alberta Health Services mental health helpline: 1-877-303-2642, and of course calling 911 if there’s immediate danger.

I have a little square on the bottom here that says, “If I think I might need help, I will call…” and then the person’s name and their number. So you fill in the blank with contact information for a doctor, nurse, therapist, helpline, another medical professional, or a friend that you trust, and leave this information out where you can see it—on the fridge, in the bathroom on a mirror, in the bedroom on a mirror, something like that. Having that visual trigger can help. When we’re struggling and we see that number, it can remind us: that’s right, I can call this person. I do have this support.

What to do before the baby comes: Just like you prepare your nursery, you can prepare your mental health before a baby arrives. Knowing the symptoms that we’ve talked about, and knowing who you can reach out to for help, is a really good place to start.

Some other things you can do include looking at your social media feeds and reflecting on how these feeds leave you feeling. Often on social media, we see perfect-looking moms, children, and colour-coordinated outfits. I call this the highlight reel, and it’s really hard to feel good enough when we’re comparing ourselves to someone else’s highlight reel. We’re not seeing their messy and dirty—we’re just seeing all the good stuff. So take a look at your social media, see how it makes you feel, and maybe cleanse some of those accounts that you’re following.

Another suggestion is doing some myth-busting. Some of the common myths regarding pregnancy or postpartum include: “I’m going to feel an instant, incredible bond with my baby,” “Breastfeeding is such an easy and natural process,” or “My instincts are going to tell me exactly what to do.” Some of these things are true for some people, and they might be true for you, and they might not—and that is okay. Our society has a lot of really powerful myths about motherhood, and the problem is those myths can make us feel bad about ourselves when they don’t match what our reality is. It can make it really difficult for people to recognize when they need help.

Another suggestion is to take a break. With your partner, work out a code word that you can say at any time that just means, “I need a break,” and you need to take the baby. Have this with both partners. When one of you reaches your limit and says the code word, have a talk about there being no judgment, no questions, and no need to explain—just a baby handover. You might think pre-baby you’ll never need a code word like this, and maybe you’ll never need to use it, but I think it can be really important to have one, just in case.

Practicing TIP: TIP are some proven distress tolerance techniques, and these are used in dialectical behaviour therapy. They can be really helpful when our emotions are running high—which, when we have a baby, is pretty much guaranteed to happen. TIP stands for temperature. When your emotions are running high, you can do any one of these things to help bring your emotions down. Temperature: put your hands in a bowl of ice water, or hold a cold pack or an ice pack on your face for 30 seconds.

I is for intense exercise. This is something that may not be possible after giving birth, especially in the first few weeks, but once approved by your doctor, even a short burst of really intense exercise—running, a few jumping jacks, dancing around—can help calm the body. I recommend having a favourite song and having a mini dance party.

The first P is for paced breathing—really deep, slow breaths. Try five seconds in, hold for a few seconds, and then seven seconds breathing out, and do that a few times. The last piece is for paired muscle relaxation: breathing in, tensing our muscles, making ourselves aware of the tension, feeling that tension, and then saying the word “relax” in your mind while you breathe out and release that tension that you’re holding.

If you have a longer amount of time, you can also work your way through the body from bottom to top, or top to bottom, tensing and relaxing different muscle groups from head to toe. Tense up your feet, make yourself aware of the tension, then breathe out and release. Then move up to your calves, do the same thing, your thighs, and you can go all the way up and all the way down.

What our partners and friends can do: It is so important for partners, friends, family members—everyone around a new mom—to know the signs and symptoms of perinatal mood disorders, and to know where to reach out for help. If you are a partner or a family member that is worried about a new mom’s mental health, approach the topic gently. There is so much stigma about mental illness for moms, and many feel guilt or shame in struggling after the birth of a baby. It can be so difficult to acknowledge when we’re struggling, even if we’ve prepared.

First of all, if someone may be a danger to themselves or others, it’s important to call 911 or to go to the emergency room, and to not hesitate with that if you think there might be a problem. But if you think there might be a problem and you’re not sure, then ask from a place of concern. Offer help, and do this without judgment.

Try to talk to the person about what you’ve observed. “Hey, I’ve noticed that you don’t seem to be sleeping even when the baby’s sleeping. I’ve noticed you’re restless. How are you feeling?” You can ask questions: “Tell me more about what you’ve been worried about.” You can offer resources: “I know we talked about calling the health line together or talking to the Healthy Beginnings nurses—do you want to do that together? When is your next appointment? How can I help with that?”

It’s important to not downplay the person’s feelings. Even if you’re trying to make them feel better, saying things like, “Focus on the positive, you have a wonderful healthy baby,” often doesn’t help and can perpetuate those feelings of guilt and shame. Don’t try to impose other points of view: “Calm down,” “It’s not a big deal,” “Everything is going to be fine,” “Just relax.” Being really open to listen and to not judge is really important.

So, the postpartum mental health checklist: knowing the signs and symptoms that we talked about of perinatal mood disorders; doing that social media cleanse if that fits for you; the myth-busting piece can be really important too, and something that can also be talked about with friends who have also had babies: “Hey, did you feel an instant bond with your baby? What was that like for you when the baby was born?” These things can be hard to bring up, but the more we do, the more they are normalized.

Taking a break: having that code word with your partner; practicing TIP, those distress tolerance techniques; and then that little piece I put down earlier: “If I think I might need help, I will call…” Having that number or the person’s name out somewhere that you can see will remind you to call them or to reach out for support when you need it.

And I just wanted to reiterate that feeling depressed, feeling anxious, having panic attacks, or thoughts that you just can’t shake can feel so isolating and can often make us feel like we’re on our own. But the good news is that you’re not on your own. You didn’t do anything wrong. You are not alone, and you’re not to blame. That’s all. I just wanted to open it up to any questions.

Thank you so much, Erica. That was a wonderful presentation—so informative. For those of you who need to leave before we have a bit of time for questions, I just want to thank you very much for joining us this evening, and I hope you’ll join again. Take care.

For those of you still on, if you have any comments or questions, we have a bit of time. Looks like maybe not tonight. But thanks a lot, Erica. I really appreciate that. That’ll be a great resource for clients ongoing.

Okay. Take care. Good night, everybody. Good night. Thank you. Bye. [Music]